More Adventures in Stargate Science

[ultranos]

Why I keep doing this to myself, I'll never know. But, once again, I am trying to make sense of Gate'verse science. May god have mercy upon my soul.

Question: how effective is the ATA gene therapy? 30%? 50%? 60%? 85%? All I remember is McKay at one point got the therapy and it took, so he could fly the jumper. Aaand...that's about it. How much does the city respond to just people, regardless of the gene or not? Because if Atlantis requires that you have the gene to open a door, the gene therapy better damn well have at least 97% effectiveness, or people like Sheppard would be running around the entire time opening doors for people. Which, um, no.

On the other hand, if the gene just lets you play with the really cool stuff, like jumpers, then I can believe a 50% or lower success rate. But that doesn't really make much sense, if the Ancients wanted to make sure no one but them or people like them (read: NOT THE WRAITH) could play with their toys or city. Then again, I may be giving the Ancients too much credit.

(Can you people tell it's the end of the semester? Whee, I can't control my brain anymore.)

Comments

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

I know it has a less than 50% success rate, mostly because JM said so in his blog. (When he annoyed me by saying that they weren't going to show Sam taking it/getting it/not having it work.) Mostly we have a handful of people for whom the therapy took, including Rodney. The rest can obviously open doors, but can't access the cool stuff.

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

*nod* Okay. That's actually kind of what I needed to know, as I'm trying to write mechanics for the therapy in tabletop terms.

Silly me, trying to hammer in some kind of consistency and rules into the gate'verse. :)

(I don't remember seeing any proof one way or another of the therapy working in Sam or if she even took it. Hm. I suppose this gives me leeway into doing whatever the hell I want, doesn't it? :) *wonders what the Wraith think of naquadah in the bloodstream*)

[holdouttrout.livejournal.com]

Yeah. JM specifically said that she took it and that it didn't take. BUT they never showed it, so...

Huh. That could've been an interesting arc, for sure.

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

For the sake of my head and the remnants of my sanity, I generally limit my canon to "what appears on the show". :)

It would have been! And, um, I'm thinking of exploring it in my crazy SGA AU.

[havocthecat]

Uh, please don't take this the wrong way, but if Sam gets the ATA gene and naquadah in the bloodstream, I think you're edging dangerously close to Samantha Sue territory. OTOH, something dealing with the ATA therapy and Sam, done well, would be awesome.

(We all know I love Sam, right? I mean, we're not thinking this is me pulling out some previously-hidden Sam-hating card, I hope.)

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know. I'm very leery of making the ATA gene work in Sam. I just wanted numbers. If anything, I'd say that it COULD have worked in her, but the inclusion of naquadah makes her blood/body chemistry so fucking bizarre that it DOESN'T.

Her NOT getting the gene also means that I can do "whatever the hell I want" in terms of "Sam thinks that having only 10 people on Atlantis who can actually use a Jumper is a epically stupid tactical situation. And goes about trying to fix it."

(Yes, we do. :P)

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

I remember at some point Zelenka specifically saying the therapy hadn't taken in him (oh! the early season one episode with the killer nanites where it didn't kill Rodney cause he *had* the gene) so it definitely doesn't take in everyone and it definitely only hampers you with certain technology, though the only specifics I've see mentioned are things like not being able to fly puddlejumpers or use the Chair. I feel like by season 2/3 they completely forgot about the gene thing most of the time.

It definitely doesn't work in everyone - I can't remember exact percentage.

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I remember it being pretty important in the beginning. And then...nothing. So I wasn't sure if it just became a non-issue, or if Beckett perfected it so that EVERYONE has it.

Because these are Very Different Things. :)

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Yes, well, we are all victims of the Atlantis Writers Being Very, Very Lazy (AUGH!)

I think I wrote into my apocafic that the gene wouldn't take in Cam (and Sam?) - I gotta figure once it got perfected pretty much every member of SGC (on Earth or Atlantis) got the therapy - no reason not to have as many people as possible who can fly jumpers, use the Antarctic chair, etc, etc.

I still want to know about Daniel - he doesn't seem to have it, but sometimes it seems like having been a glowy squid gave him something (mostly in that whether or not the mindsucker in "Lost City" would have sucked his brain even if he HAD stuck his head in it. But then he could use Merlin's device, but that was 1 ascension later and only after Merlin had rigged it)

(OMG I NEED TO BE STUDYING NAVIER-STOKES NOT THINKING ABOUT FICTIONAL GENES)

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

Lazy Atlantis Writers are currently one of the banes of my existence. *kicks tabletop rulebook*

Exactly! Only having 10 people in the entire city who can use the jumpers or the chair is so incredibly stupid. They should have either tried to perfect it, or create work-arounds for ANYONE (theoretically) to use the jumpers at least.

Daniel's...a funny case. Maybe he has a lazy ATA gene? It only works when the Plot requires?

(OMG, NAVIER-STOKES. EXAM NEXT WEEK. PANIC IMMINENT.)

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

I know! What kind of long-running show like that doesn't use a series bible? They lost so much when de Luise (however you spell his name) left.

Well, not just the city but Earth too - I mean extra dumb in the city, but Earth runs into Ancient tech and has the Antarctic chair too...

I think Daniel's case *is* plot-dependent (I do think the only time we've for sure seen him use Ancient tech is...Merlin's device (that Merlin messed with first and then he had Merlin in him which could mean ANYTHING) and first on Atlantis talking with the chick who was Morgayne but Liz did it too which makes me think they made it not gene-neceesary.

(OMG NAVIER-STOKES EXAM WEDNESDAY! ACTUALLY, IF IT WAS MOSTLY NAVIER-STOKES RATHER THAN ALL THIS GEOLOGY CRAP I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT, I MIGHT BE SLIGHTLY LESS FUCKED)

(I am terrible. I actually went and calculated what grade I'd need on the exam for my grade)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Daniel doesn't have an ATA gene.

(But I still maintain you don't *have* to have the ancient gene to get sucked by the giant head sucky thing. It activated for Vala and/or after one of them turned things on in Quest. And it came on for Sam and Daniel in Lost City.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Do you know that completely for sure? About Daniel? [initially someone with the gene had to activate the Ancient hologram on the city, but later he and Vala were....]

(I don't think you need the gene for it to pop out of the wall. I do think you need to gene for it to actually grab your head - if that makes any sense - I mean, in "Fifth Race" if only popped out of the wall when Jack walked across the mark on the floor and only headsucked Jack who had the gene, not others. In Lost City it didn't headsuck (or really have the chance) either Sam or Daniel - we don't know for sure either way)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

I know JoeM has said Daniel doesn't have the gene.

Basically, it's proving a negative, but the fact they had to get General Jack to Harry's planet in It's Good to Be King confirms the only one who had the gene in S8 is Jack.

Weir turned the hologram on for them in "Pegasus Project", but that was something anyone was working once stuff was turning on. I think it was just "people" activated--at least for their "we're not home because we left and sunk our city. Please leave no message after the beep."

After Atlantis developed the gene therapy and was back in touch with SGC, have not seen any of SG-1 (aside from Jack) use anything/do anything Ancienty.

Head sucky device.

Nothing there. Jack walks across circle. Doodad activates. (Was it because someone walked across the circle or because *Jack* did is an open question). Teal'c looks in and sees pretty lights. He moves away as Jack takes a gander...was that finishing the warmup or was it because it was a non-Jaffa, or because of Jack's gene? Another open question.

Later exploration revealed that Jack sucked the head sucky thing dry (it comes up in a later episode, perhaps even Lost City).

Second time, in Lost City.
Daniel reads translation and hits certain words as Sam notices an energy build up. It comes up in front of her and she backs away, so obviously she was worried about head suckiness herself. Daniel and Jack give it wide berth until Daniel starts to try but Jack pulls him away and then takes his place.

The Quest. Vala gets close to a sucky thing and it immediately activates, but she dodges the device. Daniel warned her to be careful, so he too was worried about potential suckiness factors for her.

(you know, out of context, this could sound very very dirty. ;-)

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

(Not needing the gene to use some parts of Ancient technology makes things easier, logistic-wise. (You don't need gene carriers running around all day pushing buttons for you) But, well, where's the line between what needs the gene and what doesn't? Because the headsucker, since it theoretically contains LOTS, if not ALL, of the sum of the Ancients' knowledge, probably should require the gene, if the Ancients didn't want just anyone getting all their knowledge.

On the other hand, I may, once again, be giving the Ancients too much credit. )

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

But they are kind of the message in a bottle things (maybe their way of thumbing their nose at ori brethren? Hah. Like people were thinking that far ahead).

They are major litterbugs after all. Stargate system, giant time loopy machines, Rubik's cube of zombification. In a galaxy without the Wraith threat, they were pretty damn lax.

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

*facepalm* You know, this just reinforces my impression that the Ancients are either malicious or bumbling incompetents. It's just...gah! Do they not THINK about the long-term? About ANYTHING? I mean, they KNEW there were other races out there, AND that there was a younger evolution of themselves coming up (at least, in the Pegasus they did). Overall, they seem remarkably unethical and careless.

[havocthecat]

Ack! Why must you post these things when I have no time. I have MANY THINKY THOUGHTS upon the issue of the ATA gene, and how horribly crabby I am that it's more effective on men than women. Or, at least, it took 'til goddamn HARMONY in fourth season for a canonically female ATA gene holder. Are you on my snark filter? I should find that post and link you to it, and add you if I haven't yet.

But I think the success rate is really low, like, maybe 10 - 20% of the people? Initially, at least. I'm pretty sure Carson's improved it by the start of season two. I would rewatch/read the transcripts of the first few eps of seasons one and two.

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

Sorry! My brain just decided that since all it has left are finals next week, it was Clearly Time To Take A Break.

The ATA gene is so irritating. And I'm trying to write d20 rules on it. And I'm trying to figure out how stupid hard I should make it.

I'm not sure if I'm on your snark filter. I would love to be on it, though. :)

You...have heard of my crazy SGA AU I'm doing, right? From "Rising"?

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

It's said in Irresistible that:

BECKETT
There. All done. Now, remember, it's only effective in 47% of those who receive it.

A lot of the stuff in Atlantis needs an Ancient gene to activate it, but once it does, anyone can operate it. Other things, like the puddle jumper pilot controls or the Chair you need to have the Ancient gene.

You don't see many Pegasus people with the Ancient gene naturally. The Travelers (people you may or may not be familiar with) were trying to create their own ATA therapy irrespective of Carson's research.

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

I love your trivia brain. :)

Ah, "Irresistible". No wonder I didn't remember; I pretty much blocked that episode from my memory.

I forgot about the Travelers trying to create their own ATA therapy.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's true for many of us. I think it's a self-preservation instinct.

(You know, I didn't think Irresitible was that bad when I first saw it...did I mention I only saw the last 20 minutes of it the first time?)