Sometimes, everything is easier after you end the world

[ultranos]

Currently working on the apocafic from hell. Daniel, dear, you would not shut up when I was busy dealing with finals. Now, I have all the time in the world, and now you decide to be recalcitrant? And no, trying to get me to read The Hagakure and/or The Tale of Genji does not count. Really.

And neither does trying to get me to solve this linguistic tangle you have presented me. *sigh*



From what I can remember, Goa'uld is, in theory, some kind of root of Ancient Egyptian. At the very least, the written language is.

So it makes sense for the Goa'uld that posed as Egyptian gods (Ra, Apophis, etc) to have had an influence on the linguistic development of Egypt. This, of course, begs the question of "what about non-Egyptian gods?"

I can handwave a little about other Mediterranian cultures, because there was a lot of cross-cultural blending around that area due to trade even thousands of years ago. So Greek gods like Cronus are, theoretically, okay. Even though Ancient Greek is not really at all related to Ancient Egyptian.

Where this gets ridiculously sticky is when we get out of the Mediterranian. Yu and Ameteratsu, I am looking at you. I am at an utter loss to explain even basic communication between the Goa'uld and any random human. Not that I expect there was much, but still. There is no hint at all. Hell, some of the sounds in both languages don't even exist in each other, much less in Goa'uld. (l and r are rather notorious examples)

So, when I have a story set in Ameteratsu's old territory, logically the local language should be some kind of blend of Goa'uld and Old Japanese (pre-Nara period). Only...oh holy fuck, does Goa'uld romanji scare the crap out of me. And gives me a headache even contemplating it. But I can't possibly see how else to work this.

Comments

[windstar127.livejournal.com]

i actually have a very pretty musical version of genji monogatari...unfortunately, it's all in japanese, and not subbed. but i'll offer to help with Goa'uld romaji if you want it?

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

Maybe. I'm going to try to get around it by implying heavily that this is what it is but never actually trying to define it exactly. I might take you up on that offer if it proves to be utterly impossible.

[brannonb.livejournal.com]

The linguistics of SG-1 is a morass of illogic that will never be solved :-)

When creating stories in the SG-1 universe I have found it easiest not to try to force the linguistics to work realistically, but rather to allow them to be (without logic) like they are in the show. For example:

1. Natives always speak English :-)
2. Native languages are usually not written as if they are English, especially not their ancient languages. If they have ruins, they have ancient script (Egyptian, Chinese, etc.) as appropriate to their culture, or perhaps ancient Goa'uld.
3. Natives only fail to speak English when there is a compelling plot reason for them not to -- i.e. the drama of the story is based on the importance of making ourselves understood to the natives, and we have a limited time to do so.
4. All archaeologists are familiar with all ancient languages :-)

It makes no sense, and is only because of the need for the TV show not to waste time on language barriers, but it's so much a part of the show it's very hard to get around it or come up with a truly logical way it could be justified :-)

I'm sorry I could not respond to your comment on Redial the Gate. The mods removed my comment and asked me not to discuss my work on the Stargate SG-1 property because it is considered "advertizing".

Brannon

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

I do understand the realities of doing things in the constraints of a TV show (or even a tabletop, if we're going to be honest here). And yes, really the linguistics of Stargate should really just have a giant label on them that state "This way lies madness".

That being said, it doesn't exactly stop me from attempting it anyway. :)

Ah, I kind of figured that. Thanks for commenting here, though. It was a pleasant surprise.

[sg-betty.livejournal.com]

Yikes. That language issue never actually occurced to me. Uh... Huh. I got nothing, but you have provided something interesting to contemplate. It sure would be easier if they'd just said that the Goa'uld adopted the languages around them, and just (handwave) decided that Ancient Egyptian would be their common language. But they didn't do that... Hmmm...

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

I know. Just saying Ancient Egyptian was the common language would have solved the problem. The fact that, logically, the languages that they would have been exposed to, especially in East Asia, are so very, very different than Egyptian means that any kind of handwave is really weak. And any sort of loan words are really, really terrifying.