ultranos | Look, I'm trying to make sense of 'gateverse tech. Again.

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Look, I'm trying to make sense of 'gateverse tech. Again.

Okay, LJ hivemind, I've got a 'gateverse question maybe you could help me out on:

Consider ring transports from ship to planet and vice versa. Does this method of transportation from planet to ship require at minimum two people: one to beam up and one at the controls? I know we've seen on the show the reverse can be done with only one person (set it and then dive for the rings). But I can't seem to remember if we've seen one person be able to beam themselves up. (If so, probably via remote control.)

Of course, the absence of this capability would kind of explain the overall superiority of Asgard beaming tech, except I thought the rings were yet another piece of Ancient tech cannibalized by the Goa'uld. I could, of course, be wrong.

(Why, yes, I have nothing better to think about at 9:45AM on a Monday morning right before class.)

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Nirrti had some kind of remote setup to beam from planet to laboratory, in, uh... that ep where Cassie goes a bit crazy. But it was a permanent thing, rather than a portable thing, so I'm not sure it quite counts.

I'd expect that they have got some kind of portable remote control for the rings (possibly a function of the hand device?), but I can't remember ever seeing it used. Goa'uld technology is so clunky. :)

Yeah, I'm looking for a more portable thing.

I would have thought they'd have a remote control, because that would make sense, but this IS the Goa'uld we're talking about. :) Plus, I can think of many failure modes for having a remote control. Then again, Goa'uld we're talking about.

And yes, why is their technology so clunky and nonsensical? :)

And yes, why is their technology so clunky and nonsensical? :)

~~Because TPTB didn't think it through properly beforehand.~~ Well, they're all evolving separate bits of technology, and not sharing, and stealing from one another and patching it together... I'd've thought that a remote would be fairly standard, though. Keyed to the use of only those with naquadah in their blood, probably

I think that Nirrti at least should have one - if she can install a permanent one, no doubt a woman of her talents could create a smaller, more portable version. She wouldn't share it, though. :)

They scavenged it, sure, and probably weren't exactly all about the sharing. But it also all seems to have a defining...look and feel, for lack of a better way to put it. (Also known as "gaudy" and "eye-seering")

Good point about any remote being keyed to require naquadah in the blood, though. That would reduce "ye random person" from suddenly getting a ship. Although the Goa'uld are arrogant enough to not think about that one.

(man, this icon is getting a workout today)

Y'know, the first thing that came to my mind was Daniel "sneaking" onto Ra's ship in the movie. But he more jumped into it as it was already happening as opposed to him doing it alone (wow, that sounds dirty).

I shall ponder this more.

The question is eating my brain. So I figured I'd inflict the rest of you with it too. :) Because sharing is caring.

You mean like Osiris did at the end of "The Curse"? She punched a button on her ribbon device, delivered an overwrought megalomaniac speech, and got ringed up.

And you're right, apparently the rings are originally Ancient tech (especially considering the Ori have a variation on them).

Oh! And um, the bald guy in Secrets...Heru'ur! That's his name. After Jack stabbed the center crystal (with the magically reverse moving throwing knife), the Goa'uld was still able to hit a side button and ring himself the hell out of Abydos Dodge.

*admires your encyclopaedic knowledge, and your ability to access that knowledge when needed, once again*

:)

Yes, my brain is a font of useless Stargate trivia.

It's a blessing...and a curse. :-)

I was hoping you'd be one of the ones to tackle this. :) Have I ever mentioned love for your encyclopedic knowledge of Stargate?

The question I have for that instance, though, is was that button the thing that activated the rings, or was it a signal to Heru'ur's waiting ship to "beam me up now, kthnx"?

Hmm, I was always presuming the former, but it is unclear.

Although, Osiris presumably didn't have a crew on her mothballed funky looking tel'tak that she flew out of Ancient Egypt, and I think she punched the same button.

I do like your label for the button. "kthnx"

Osiris presumably didn't have a crew on her mothballed funky looking tel'tak that she flew out of Ancient Egypt, and I think she punched the same button.

Good point.

Argh, ring tech is so unclearly defined. Probably on purpose, so it can be a "get out of trouble free" card, especially early on.

There should always be a "kthnx" button.

Yep, the rings are originally Ancient tech, like the Gates. That explains why the Ori have rings.

As far as I can tell, there are two kinds of rings - the ones that have the controls to manipulate the matter stream, and the ones that respond to a matter stream either being directed toward it or away from it by a remote ring platform with the controls (or by a remote).

We saw Ra and Anubis (not that one) in the movie use a gauntlet. Heru'ur had one in Secrets. Teal'c had one in Zero Hour.

As for why so much Goa'uld tech is so clunky - well, my personal theory is that most of their stuff is cannibalized from Ancient tech and not actually getting used according to their original specs. For example, the ribbon device might very well have been originally used for telepathic transfer, as Sha're did.

As far as I can tell, there are two kinds of rings - the ones that have the controls to manipulate the matter stream, and the ones that respond to a matter stream either being directed toward it or away from it by a remote ring platform with the controls (or by a remote).

Wait, what?

Eh, it's my own way of trying to understand how the rings work. Not canon-based, so don't panic. :)

Maybe I'm not clear (or maybe it doesn't make sense, heh). I'm suggesting that there are rings out there that can't work on their own without a marrying set of rings triggering the matter stream from somewhere else. Like an external hard drive, maybe? It can transfer data back and forth to the computer, but the computer needs to direct the transfer - the external hard drive can't do it by itself.

Well...you almost always need two sets of rings...oh I see what you're saying.

The rings go up and then they disappear after they do whatever fakey science thing they do to the people to make them disappear and it's transmitted to the receiver set...

BUT, there are exceptions.

If there's no receiving set of rings, the rings can physically reform themselves at a small distance--such as what Jacob did to Sam and Daniel in Tangent, or the bounty hunter did in er, Bounty. If there's no solid material for the rings to reform on, then they just break apart/disappear, like the supersoldier did in "Evolution 2"

I don't think it's "two types" or rings so much as "settings" in the transport. If there's a signal to whatever x spot, the rings work that way, whether as transmitter or receiver. There is actually a ring "beam". (And they can be intercepted too--like Vala in Beachhead, or Teal'c did for team in "Devil You Know" (and team tried to do for Teal'c in "Serpent's Venom").

Hmm, maybe the rings are transported as well? No, that wouldn't make sense because then you'd have some platforms with ring surpluses and some with no more "rings to transport".

Hmm, maybe the rings are transported as well? No, that wouldn't make sense because then you'd have some platforms with ring surpluses and some with no more "rings to transport".

It'd be funny, though. Intercept a beam, grab the prisoners - and the Goa'uld's rings! Really irritate the Goa'uld. *g*

No, you're right - it's not two kinds of rings. I wasn't suggested they came in Mac or PC. :) What I was trying to say (rather badly) is that there are two kinds of rings in terms of what equipment they've got - if they're installed with the full package, or only the basic, no-frills teleportation. Because that is so out-of-date, yawn. As you say, a question of settings.

~~See, what ultranos_fic said is the same thing what was confusing me.~~ I figured all rings were the same, it was just what the individual programming for transport that could get all wacky. They all had the same controls, they were just set for longer/shorter/homing device by the individual user.

ETA: Never mind. She was responding to me, not you, re: redundancy.

Hee. Mac v PC Rings FTW!

Edited 2008-09-08 17:10 (UTC)

So, this might sound like a stupid question, but does that mean that if there's no recieving set of rings, there are two forms of transport/teleportation going on? One for the rings themselves and one for whatever needs to be transported? And isn't this, um, redundant?

Yes...it is redundant. I started to confuse myself.

There's the rings that encompass the people/things etc and then they all disappear. But the ring transportation actually are a visible energy beam that can be intercepted. (And you're the science people to know about matter/energy handwavy stuff).

Oh...but wait. Usually you connect to another set of rings, so it's a transfer. Like in the movie when the rings brought the bomb back up, Daniel hopped on them with Shau'ri to transfer back down. So there's an even exchange.

Maybe the rings and the people are always travelling together.

Not sure how that works for short range...I guess if there's no "receiving end", they automatically "retract" back to their starting point? That's why it needs to be short range?

No receiving end does force the short-range issue and does make your conjecture make sense.

Oh man, the science behind the matter/energy handwavy stuff? You really, really don't want to think about that too hard. (the energy cost! ARGH!)

I think we've seen the transfer in the series too. So, maybe the rings just take all matter within their volume and transfer it. Meaning they just swap between "empty" air and a person, so it just looks like a one-way transfer.

Works for me! :-D

Maybe it's just a matter of what hardware the rings have attached? If you have a remote gauntlet, you effectively have the same thing as the wall controls... so maybe, if you have rings without a controller, they're not different so much as just lacking an optional bit. Um. So, the rings in the middle of the desert in Exodus - which presumably don't have a controller - could actually work as the more normal rings, if they just installed a little platform and some crystals and whatnot, and plugged it in. And in reverse, rings with controllers, if they get broken, would still work as a receiver for remotely-activated rings.

That's how I see it. Kind of what you said, I think.

Yes, exactly. I was just spectacularly unclear!

Look, I'm trying to make sense of 'gateverse tech. Again.

Between that and Replicarter POV, your brain hasn't broken into a million tiny shards yet? I'm impressed.

Hah! You should have seen me trying to figure out the implications of the Ancients using base 8 math on their computer technology and what that means for Tau'ri trying to access it using computer systems designed around base 10 math. At 2AM. THAT was fun.

Hmm. In The Devil You Know, Bynarr had a hidden control section in his quarters, for rings up to a ship. (Apparently any ship that passed?) And that's how Jolinar escaped his clutches.

I'm trying to remember how the Tok'ra did it on that sand planet when we first met them. I remember they had to try and find the exact place in the sand... I don't remember controls though.

Maybe the controls were hidden under the tripe?

Possibly? I haven't watched that ep in ages, but possibly those rings were going from the sand down into the tunnels, and were activated from within the tunnels. And you communicated by radio (or those little ball thingies) to tell them when. Which, in that case, would require two people.

So, Bynarr had a hidden control section in his quarters, but I thought Jolinar hacked it on a time-delay for her to get to the rings. But it wasn't remotely done.

Like, we have a ship. Empty. We know it has rings on it to transport (let's say because that's how we got onto the planet). Can we activate them planetside to get back to the ship?

She did. And Sam had to do the same thing. I wasn't really trying to infer that it was remote. Just adding in another instance I hadn't seen mentioned. This was early on in the series, and this series has a remarkable ability to just change things for their own convenience.

I don't remember them ever activating rings from planetside to get back to a ship. It always seemed to be by messaging by radio back to the ship. But I haven't seen any eps in a while. I'm trying to think of eps in which there are specific ring problems, so you can figure it out.

I wasn't really trying to infer that it was remote. Just adding in another instance I hadn't seen mentioned.

Ah. Okay, I parsed that wrong. Sorry.

this series has a remarkable ability to just change things for their own convenience.

You'd think these things are "plot devices" or something. :)

Yes! Specific ring problems are good. Gives me more data points to puzzle it out. (And then share with the rest of you.)

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Look, I'm trying to make sense of 'gateverse tech. Again.

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